I don’t think OP was indicting Duvid. On the contrary, the way I understand it he seems to be pointing at the system as the rapist. Both Duvid and his wife are rape-adjacent victims.
I agree. Huge numbers of people keep information from partners. If a man finds themselves more attracted to another woman in his life and doesn't tell his wife is that the same? Or not attracted to his wife much at all? He's supposed to tell her this to get consent? If he loves her and wants to be with her and has no diseases or anything like that, nothing else needs to be disclosed (I don't mean to be absolute - I recognize the sensitivity. I just think that term is way off)
At what point is someone expected to come clean. I don’t understand how one can have a relationship with this being hidden. (Some will add but how about other stuff and I’ll respond with those too) Are we implying it is incumbent on a spouse to keep the secret forever.
Very considerate and beautiful piece. The total lack of sexual outlets are worsened by the insistence that people wait until late to get married, there isn’t space for exploration. This is also an issue for Baal Teshuvas who are expected on entry to turn over their entire sexual world to the Rabbonim who will decide who you date, when, where, how and have complete control over every aspect of it. If they don’t like your religious journey they will conspire to prevent you from meeting women, from dating and from finding a spouse on your level who works with you and is a good match.
I hear your points here and I think much of it is very well said and generally accurate. But you can't have a meaningful discussion about this topic without comparing it to general society or other options you support. "Consent" doesn't start with a specific proposition. General society is infinitely worse in raising girls to be sexual beings by the time they're 13 and flooding their world with sexual dynamics throughout high school, to start there. Did they consent to that? When they honestly say "yes," were they well enough educated about life and the implications of their decision? Are you doing a girl a favor by raising her that way instead of the "frum" way because she has fuller autonomy? I don't even think it's close. The frum way has all the problems you mentioned but I think you will be very hard pressed to find a society in history that has sustained success in sexual ethics with the standard you are looking for. Sex is the most powerful force on earth and there are always going to be compromises and failures in how it's managed.
If you're advocating for improving the system in these areas, great. But you're not. You're just blaming the system. Here's my challenge: in comparison to an improved frum world, show me a better system.
1) Im not certain that I need to propose a better system for my points to stand. The claim being made is that the system is an outcome of God's will. You'd think it would be perfect or close to it, not a bunch of compromises. A conversation focusing on a better flawed system seems to imply that the best we can do is manmade. Now you might answer that this is perfectly in line with your hashkafa but you'd think there would be a better answer than general society hasn't come up with anything better.
2) What you mean by an improved frum system? Some of what I mentioned is societal but others are halachic. Would the improvements solve the issues stemming from niddah, masturbation being assur, and LGBT people having no options? Ultimately, the frum system doesn't have a lot of room to change in many areas.
3) The idea of an improved system would mean acknowledging that this has been an unadressed problem for a very long time. Are we agreeing that all the generations until now got it wrong?
4) I agree that there are many issues with the way the general society approaches sex. Frum people often talk about this as if it's a chiddush that only they realize. It isn't. You can find thoughtful discussions about it in many books, articles, podcasts, and on social media There are plenty of smart people who acknowledge the problems of sexualization at a young age, overconsumption of porn etc. and are trying to address them.
5) Unlike frum society, general society has endless options for possible better and worse systems. They can move in the direction of encouraging fully open communication about health sex, masturbation, consent, and meaningful pursuits, while preventing oversexualization and excess. Or completely lose control and end up with no kids because everyone owns a sex robot. No one knows, not even the rabbanim giving shmuessin confidently predicting the end of society as we know it. There's no reason to think a better future is impossible.
1 is a comment on the whole imperfect world. If you accept the Torah, clearly you accept that we are meant to live it in a very human context and culture that evolves over history across geography. This area is a challenge that is inherent in humanity, watch is why no one else had figured it out either.
2 is related to 1. There's a reason these issues emerged more or less since the sixties when sexual mores in the society around us started going to pieces. Halacha makes demand in many areas but in all, we believe the connection to meaning and eternity is worth the physical and even sometimes emotional and psychic price that are temporal.
3. Previous generations were trying to prevent the Holocaust from destroying Judaism outright and were rightfully willing to accept major compromises to "keep the heart beating" before moving on to other trauma and other improvements. And the generations before that were fighting horrific antisemitism as well as the haskala and made countless compromises also. The only reason we're even having this confirmation is one woman named Sara Schneirer figured out a way to motivate Jewish girls to get excited about frumkeit. We were that close to the end. So yes, our system is a total wreck but a miraculous thing of beauty at the same time when you factor in what we had to do to get here.
4. Yes, I know. Let's see where that gets us. So far, fewer and fewer high school girls see themselves ever getting married. And there are more and more incels there causing havoc and porn is proliferating and relationships are deteriorating, so don't hold your breath (not to mention that society overall is crumbling).
5. Social media (especially involving sexualization), video games, AI in academics, trashy entertainment, the loneliness epidemic especially and the unraveling of the political backbone of society doesn't bode well for that future.
The frum world has lots of work to do and the leadership is sadly one of the bigger obstacles to progress. But that progress is happening and like it or not, your post is helping 🙂
I'll start by saying that I would be very happy if my posts helped make some sort of systemic change in the frum community.
That said, your response only works within the paradigm you're working with. Ultimately, your position is unfalsifiable. The system is always the best possible system. Either it's demonstrably better than anything secular society has to offer and proof that it's divinely inspired. Or it's worse but worth the sacrifice because it's better for spiritual reasons.
The same applies to discussing previous generations. Either they were so much better and now there's yeridas hadoros or they did things that were worse because it was an eis laasos.
You can apply the same logic to the current leadership of the frum world if you were inclined to do so.
The larger problem here is that we don't agree on terms or reality which is why I tend not to engage much in the comments section. I'm working from a paradigm where secular society isn't stupid, sexual freedom and diversity is not a moral breakdown, and anything can happen. Your paradigm is that morality is defined by Torah values, which include none of the things I mentioned, and only frum people ultimately have a future.
The challenge was to suggest a better alternative to the frum system but that isn't possible if a fair comparison can't be made. If problems in the secular system are global, irreversible, and stemming from moral breakdown while problems in the frum community are limited, easily addressed and stemming from greater moral goals then congratulations you win.
I agree that general society is pretty disgusting when it comes to true consent from a young woman. My theory has always been that the Jewish world reacts to the outside secular world. Now that the secular world is so messed up the Jewish world goes more and more inward and is more closed. Years ago when Jewish norms and secular sexual norms were not so different I don’t think the Jewish world was as weird about sex. Just my theory interested in feedback
And finally i don’t think a gay man who has sex with his wife is rape adjacent. I think it’s just sad because he feels his options are limited.
>>A couple having sex the night of the chasuna because the chosson rebbi said it’s important even if they’re exhausted and would rather take it slow.
>>A woman using a bedika cloth even though she’s still sore from childbirth just so that she can get a hug from her husband.
>>A man having unprotected sex because he couldn’t get a heter for birth control despite not feeling ready to have more children.
>>A wife feeling pressured to have sex whenever her husband requests it because her kallah teacher told her that it’s her role.
>>A bachur advised to tell his rebbi every time he masturbates.
>>A spouse having sex with someone they find unattractive because they didn’t know attraction was important when they were in shidduchim."<<
Every one of these (except the bachur one - what's that about??) is an issue, but not an issue with Judaism for the most part, but with the system. And we're working on changing on it. Not just on Substack, but in the real world, with real chassanim and Rabbonim.
I appreciate the acknowledgment that there’s a real problem here, especially since all of the examples I mentioned involve people I know personally. The example of the bachur was meant to illustrate the lack of sexual autonomy within the community.
I think the distinction you’re drawing between community and religion is accurate in some cases (most of cause 3), partially correct, with some no true Scotsman mixed in for others (most of cause 2), and not accurate for the remainder (most of cause 1).
I agree that there’s room for greater tolerance, flexibility, education, and communication, while remaining within the daled amos of halacha. The last three examples I gave seem to fall into that category.
The first three examples, and similar cases, don’t. Those are very clearly rooted in halacha, which is why the rabbanim involved responded the way they did. I expect the response will be that those rabbanim were wrong, because “real Judaism” wouldn’t put people in those positions but that's the no true Scotsman argument. Many of the rabbanim in these stories were well respected, mainstream authorities who represent at least one established version (if not the established version) of ultra Orthodox Judaism, and the mekoros for their rulings and recommendations are not hard to find.
Finally, as far as I know, there aren’t real solutions currently being discussed for issues like LGBT identity or the damage caused by niddah. If there are concrete solutions being discussed, I’d genuinely be interested in hearing about them. If not, then acknowledging that the pain is coming from the religion itself seems more honest than deflecting it.
Anybody know the hetter re chassidish chasunohs in the Summer, when it's bright daylight by the time chosson and kalloh get home? Happy and other learned aplogeticisers, anybody know?
I know Reb Matisyohu campaigned about this that al pi halochoh they must wait until the following night.
I am a Doctoral student at Millersville University, PA, and am conducting a research study to better understand the experiences of those who were born and raised in the Orthodox Jewish religion and then disaffiliated. Please see my attached announcement flyer with the details for participating in the research study and pass it on to anyone you know who qualifies to participate in the study along with the following survey link: https://millersville.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_b1TPvXce78U3fcW
If you have any questions, please email yebenedi@millersville.edu or contact me by phone at (848) 223-3804.
The purpose of the study is to better understand the experiences of people leaving the Orthodox Jewish religion. This includes the experiences that may have influenced a person’s choice to leave and their experiences after leaving Orthodox Judaism. The purpose is to identify any challenges that may need to be addressed and the types of support this population may need, and to benefit those who left Orthodox Judaism by helping social work students and social workers better understand their experiences.
I agree with a lot of the sentiments here, but have a small issue with these two examples:
>>A woman using a bedika cloth even though she’s still sore from childbirth just so that she can get a hug from her husband.
>>A man having unprotected sex because he couldn’t get a heter for birth control despite not feeling ready to have more children.
These are not consent issues, these are adults making informed decisions in the privacy of their own homes that no one else is even aware of. If they feel that abiding by the Halacha (as they understood it) is paramount, then that's the choice they chose, no one externally forced them to do so.
Given the validity of the points made above, how -- within the framework of accepted halacha -- should this be addressed? It appears to me that from the context of the Talmud, itself, there WAS a certain "open-ness" about this. (e.g., Talmud in Nedarim making clear how "focused" a husband and wife should be to each other). Yet, "something" seems to have happened. The Talmud appears to "project" a sense of great "flexibility" between husband and wife -- yet *one* Rishon (Raavad, I believe) had a more "restrictive" view and it seems that this view is the one that becomes "accepted".
I do not claim to understand how a Hashkafa "develops". But, given the clarity of the analysis in this article, I would be interested to know if there are legitimate steps that could be taken.
As one example:
How to improve the Chassan / Kallah teachers to spend time on the beauty and love of the physical intimacy instead of spending time ONLY on the Halachot of Nidah and "Tznius"?
I happen to be frum (I grew up very modern Orthodox initially but have substantially changed my belief system in different ways over the years in response to learning) and believe in the system but (a) I fully respect other approaches and (b) I'm not trying in any way to prove anything is true or to take any position at all so arguing it's unfalsifiable doesn't make sense.
My response was silent to challenge your position by arguing that you were using dysfunction to prove the system wrong or bad and that this fails without a functional alternative to compare it to. Sexuality is a huge problem everyone has always struggled with and that's expected.
I am certainly open to a response that does not assume the truth of the frum system and am interested in your thoughts in light of this.
I added an explanation as to how it is not inconsistent with a divine Torah and to point out that the Torah happens to meet the challenges you identify with an expected level of success considering the messy world we live in and the volatile history we experienced. This does not prove it's true but it helps explain how it can be without a problem.
I don’t see proposing a full alternative as a prerequisite for pointing out harm. What I hiighlighted is the amount of pain this system is producing, along with how constrained the possibilities for change are within it. I’m not claiming to have the answers. That said, there are writers who thoughtfully explore healthier ways of approaching these issues, and I’d be glad to share some recommendations via DM if you're interested.
If that's your intent I have no problem with it. The OP, I believe, implied that the religion is bad/wrong because of your observations and that's what I was responding to. I'm happy to read a DM.
If the religion isn’t true and the harm is avoidable, then the logical conclusion would be that the religion itself is harmful. I didn’t argue either of those points here. If someone wants to claim that the harm is unavoidable or that the system is true in a way that justifies it, then the burden of proof would be on them. In any case, the comments section of a post isn't the place to discuss those claims in depth. I sent you a few author recommendations via DM
I disagree strongly that David Kaufman is rape-adjecenting his wife.
I agree strongly that the sex ed system is horrific.
I don’t think OP was indicting Duvid. On the contrary, the way I understand it he seems to be pointing at the system as the rapist. Both Duvid and his wife are rape-adjacent victims.
Exactly
I agree. Huge numbers of people keep information from partners. If a man finds themselves more attracted to another woman in his life and doesn't tell his wife is that the same? Or not attracted to his wife much at all? He's supposed to tell her this to get consent? If he loves her and wants to be with her and has no diseases or anything like that, nothing else needs to be disclosed (I don't mean to be absolute - I recognize the sensitivity. I just think that term is way off)
At what point is someone expected to come clean. I don’t understand how one can have a relationship with this being hidden. (Some will add but how about other stuff and I’ll respond with those too) Are we implying it is incumbent on a spouse to keep the secret forever.
Very considerate and beautiful piece. The total lack of sexual outlets are worsened by the insistence that people wait until late to get married, there isn’t space for exploration. This is also an issue for Baal Teshuvas who are expected on entry to turn over their entire sexual world to the Rabbonim who will decide who you date, when, where, how and have complete control over every aspect of it. If they don’t like your religious journey they will conspire to prevent you from meeting women, from dating and from finding a spouse on your level who works with you and is a good match.
I hear your points here and I think much of it is very well said and generally accurate. But you can't have a meaningful discussion about this topic without comparing it to general society or other options you support. "Consent" doesn't start with a specific proposition. General society is infinitely worse in raising girls to be sexual beings by the time they're 13 and flooding their world with sexual dynamics throughout high school, to start there. Did they consent to that? When they honestly say "yes," were they well enough educated about life and the implications of their decision? Are you doing a girl a favor by raising her that way instead of the "frum" way because she has fuller autonomy? I don't even think it's close. The frum way has all the problems you mentioned but I think you will be very hard pressed to find a society in history that has sustained success in sexual ethics with the standard you are looking for. Sex is the most powerful force on earth and there are always going to be compromises and failures in how it's managed.
If you're advocating for improving the system in these areas, great. But you're not. You're just blaming the system. Here's my challenge: in comparison to an improved frum world, show me a better system.
Some thoughts:
1) Im not certain that I need to propose a better system for my points to stand. The claim being made is that the system is an outcome of God's will. You'd think it would be perfect or close to it, not a bunch of compromises. A conversation focusing on a better flawed system seems to imply that the best we can do is manmade. Now you might answer that this is perfectly in line with your hashkafa but you'd think there would be a better answer than general society hasn't come up with anything better.
2) What you mean by an improved frum system? Some of what I mentioned is societal but others are halachic. Would the improvements solve the issues stemming from niddah, masturbation being assur, and LGBT people having no options? Ultimately, the frum system doesn't have a lot of room to change in many areas.
3) The idea of an improved system would mean acknowledging that this has been an unadressed problem for a very long time. Are we agreeing that all the generations until now got it wrong?
4) I agree that there are many issues with the way the general society approaches sex. Frum people often talk about this as if it's a chiddush that only they realize. It isn't. You can find thoughtful discussions about it in many books, articles, podcasts, and on social media There are plenty of smart people who acknowledge the problems of sexualization at a young age, overconsumption of porn etc. and are trying to address them.
5) Unlike frum society, general society has endless options for possible better and worse systems. They can move in the direction of encouraging fully open communication about health sex, masturbation, consent, and meaningful pursuits, while preventing oversexualization and excess. Or completely lose control and end up with no kids because everyone owns a sex robot. No one knows, not even the rabbanim giving shmuessin confidently predicting the end of society as we know it. There's no reason to think a better future is impossible.
1 is a comment on the whole imperfect world. If you accept the Torah, clearly you accept that we are meant to live it in a very human context and culture that evolves over history across geography. This area is a challenge that is inherent in humanity, watch is why no one else had figured it out either.
2 is related to 1. There's a reason these issues emerged more or less since the sixties when sexual mores in the society around us started going to pieces. Halacha makes demand in many areas but in all, we believe the connection to meaning and eternity is worth the physical and even sometimes emotional and psychic price that are temporal.
3. Previous generations were trying to prevent the Holocaust from destroying Judaism outright and were rightfully willing to accept major compromises to "keep the heart beating" before moving on to other trauma and other improvements. And the generations before that were fighting horrific antisemitism as well as the haskala and made countless compromises also. The only reason we're even having this confirmation is one woman named Sara Schneirer figured out a way to motivate Jewish girls to get excited about frumkeit. We were that close to the end. So yes, our system is a total wreck but a miraculous thing of beauty at the same time when you factor in what we had to do to get here.
4. Yes, I know. Let's see where that gets us. So far, fewer and fewer high school girls see themselves ever getting married. And there are more and more incels there causing havoc and porn is proliferating and relationships are deteriorating, so don't hold your breath (not to mention that society overall is crumbling).
5. Social media (especially involving sexualization), video games, AI in academics, trashy entertainment, the loneliness epidemic especially and the unraveling of the political backbone of society doesn't bode well for that future.
The frum world has lots of work to do and the leadership is sadly one of the bigger obstacles to progress. But that progress is happening and like it or not, your post is helping 🙂
I'll start by saying that I would be very happy if my posts helped make some sort of systemic change in the frum community.
That said, your response only works within the paradigm you're working with. Ultimately, your position is unfalsifiable. The system is always the best possible system. Either it's demonstrably better than anything secular society has to offer and proof that it's divinely inspired. Or it's worse but worth the sacrifice because it's better for spiritual reasons.
The same applies to discussing previous generations. Either they were so much better and now there's yeridas hadoros or they did things that were worse because it was an eis laasos.
You can apply the same logic to the current leadership of the frum world if you were inclined to do so.
The larger problem here is that we don't agree on terms or reality which is why I tend not to engage much in the comments section. I'm working from a paradigm where secular society isn't stupid, sexual freedom and diversity is not a moral breakdown, and anything can happen. Your paradigm is that morality is defined by Torah values, which include none of the things I mentioned, and only frum people ultimately have a future.
The challenge was to suggest a better alternative to the frum system but that isn't possible if a fair comparison can't be made. If problems in the secular system are global, irreversible, and stemming from moral breakdown while problems in the frum community are limited, easily addressed and stemming from greater moral goals then congratulations you win.
I agree that general society is pretty disgusting when it comes to true consent from a young woman. My theory has always been that the Jewish world reacts to the outside secular world. Now that the secular world is so messed up the Jewish world goes more and more inward and is more closed. Years ago when Jewish norms and secular sexual norms were not so different I don’t think the Jewish world was as weird about sex. Just my theory interested in feedback
And finally i don’t think a gay man who has sex with his wife is rape adjacent. I think it’s just sad because he feels his options are limited.
>>A couple having sex the night of the chasuna because the chosson rebbi said it’s important even if they’re exhausted and would rather take it slow.
>>A woman using a bedika cloth even though she’s still sore from childbirth just so that she can get a hug from her husband.
>>A man having unprotected sex because he couldn’t get a heter for birth control despite not feeling ready to have more children.
>>A wife feeling pressured to have sex whenever her husband requests it because her kallah teacher told her that it’s her role.
>>A bachur advised to tell his rebbi every time he masturbates.
>>A spouse having sex with someone they find unattractive because they didn’t know attraction was important when they were in shidduchim."<<
Every one of these (except the bachur one - what's that about??) is an issue, but not an issue with Judaism for the most part, but with the system. And we're working on changing on it. Not just on Substack, but in the real world, with real chassanim and Rabbonim.
I appreciate the acknowledgment that there’s a real problem here, especially since all of the examples I mentioned involve people I know personally. The example of the bachur was meant to illustrate the lack of sexual autonomy within the community.
I think the distinction you’re drawing between community and religion is accurate in some cases (most of cause 3), partially correct, with some no true Scotsman mixed in for others (most of cause 2), and not accurate for the remainder (most of cause 1).
I agree that there’s room for greater tolerance, flexibility, education, and communication, while remaining within the daled amos of halacha. The last three examples I gave seem to fall into that category.
The first three examples, and similar cases, don’t. Those are very clearly rooted in halacha, which is why the rabbanim involved responded the way they did. I expect the response will be that those rabbanim were wrong, because “real Judaism” wouldn’t put people in those positions but that's the no true Scotsman argument. Many of the rabbanim in these stories were well respected, mainstream authorities who represent at least one established version (if not the established version) of ultra Orthodox Judaism, and the mekoros for their rulings and recommendations are not hard to find.
Finally, as far as I know, there aren’t real solutions currently being discussed for issues like LGBT identity or the damage caused by niddah. If there are concrete solutions being discussed, I’d genuinely be interested in hearing about them. If not, then acknowledging that the pain is coming from the religion itself seems more honest than deflecting it.
I used to wonder why so many guys followed the Rosh home after shiur. I no longer wonder why.
Anybody know the hetter re chassidish chasunohs in the Summer, when it's bright daylight by the time chosson and kalloh get home? Happy and other learned aplogeticisers, anybody know?
I know Reb Matisyohu campaigned about this that al pi halochoh they must wait until the following night.
Well said.
To whom it may concern:
I am a Doctoral student at Millersville University, PA, and am conducting a research study to better understand the experiences of those who were born and raised in the Orthodox Jewish religion and then disaffiliated. Please see my attached announcement flyer with the details for participating in the research study and pass it on to anyone you know who qualifies to participate in the study along with the following survey link: https://millersville.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_b1TPvXce78U3fcW
If you have any questions, please email yebenedi@millersville.edu or contact me by phone at (848) 223-3804.
The purpose of the study is to better understand the experiences of people leaving the Orthodox Jewish religion. This includes the experiences that may have influenced a person’s choice to leave and their experiences after leaving Orthodox Judaism. The purpose is to identify any challenges that may need to be addressed and the types of support this population may need, and to benefit those who left Orthodox Judaism by helping social work students and social workers better understand their experiences.
Sincerely,
Yechiel Benedikt, LCSW, LCADC
DSW student, Millersville University
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0afQ2U35oaeAoDBQVNcpzFKnw#Invitation-to-participate-in-a-Research-Study_(2)
Thank you for, while writing a bad take, actually writing the take and not using AI. This was a pleasure to read. @ash
I agree with a lot of the sentiments here, but have a small issue with these two examples:
>>A woman using a bedika cloth even though she’s still sore from childbirth just so that she can get a hug from her husband.
>>A man having unprotected sex because he couldn’t get a heter for birth control despite not feeling ready to have more children.
These are not consent issues, these are adults making informed decisions in the privacy of their own homes that no one else is even aware of. If they feel that abiding by the Halacha (as they understood it) is paramount, then that's the choice they chose, no one externally forced them to do so.
Guilt..
This is why my "how to love your wife" is required reading.
https://davidschulmannn.substack.com/p/how-to-love-your-wife
I’ve wondered in the past. Now I know.
this post is quite on the nose....the gap between reality and ideals is large and often they are conflated.
Given the validity of the points made above, how -- within the framework of accepted halacha -- should this be addressed? It appears to me that from the context of the Talmud, itself, there WAS a certain "open-ness" about this. (e.g., Talmud in Nedarim making clear how "focused" a husband and wife should be to each other). Yet, "something" seems to have happened. The Talmud appears to "project" a sense of great "flexibility" between husband and wife -- yet *one* Rishon (Raavad, I believe) had a more "restrictive" view and it seems that this view is the one that becomes "accepted".
I do not claim to understand how a Hashkafa "develops". But, given the clarity of the analysis in this article, I would be interested to know if there are legitimate steps that could be taken.
As one example:
How to improve the Chassan / Kallah teachers to spend time on the beauty and love of the physical intimacy instead of spending time ONLY on the Halachot of Nidah and "Tznius"?
I happen to be frum (I grew up very modern Orthodox initially but have substantially changed my belief system in different ways over the years in response to learning) and believe in the system but (a) I fully respect other approaches and (b) I'm not trying in any way to prove anything is true or to take any position at all so arguing it's unfalsifiable doesn't make sense.
My response was silent to challenge your position by arguing that you were using dysfunction to prove the system wrong or bad and that this fails without a functional alternative to compare it to. Sexuality is a huge problem everyone has always struggled with and that's expected.
I am certainly open to a response that does not assume the truth of the frum system and am interested in your thoughts in light of this.
I added an explanation as to how it is not inconsistent with a divine Torah and to point out that the Torah happens to meet the challenges you identify with an expected level of success considering the messy world we live in and the volatile history we experienced. This does not prove it's true but it helps explain how it can be without a problem.
I don’t see proposing a full alternative as a prerequisite for pointing out harm. What I hiighlighted is the amount of pain this system is producing, along with how constrained the possibilities for change are within it. I’m not claiming to have the answers. That said, there are writers who thoughtfully explore healthier ways of approaching these issues, and I’d be glad to share some recommendations via DM if you're interested.
If that's your intent I have no problem with it. The OP, I believe, implied that the religion is bad/wrong because of your observations and that's what I was responding to. I'm happy to read a DM.
If the religion isn’t true and the harm is avoidable, then the logical conclusion would be that the religion itself is harmful. I didn’t argue either of those points here. If someone wants to claim that the harm is unavoidable or that the system is true in a way that justifies it, then the burden of proof would be on them. In any case, the comments section of a post isn't the place to discuss those claims in depth. I sent you a few author recommendations via DM
Not really. Because the religion can provide much more benefits than the harm it gives.
Brilliant.